Tony Graf for Tooele County Council District 1

[00:00:01] Speaker A: All right, welcome back. [00:00:03] Speaker B: Okay, so we've got Tony Graff. How are you, Tony? How are you? [00:00:08] Speaker A: You guys, welcome Tony Graff, who is the candidate for district one. [00:00:14] Speaker B: So those of you Twilla county council. [00:00:17] Speaker A: District one, those of you county delegates will be in that race for district one on Friday. So get there at 06:00 p.m. So you can get in front of him and, and get to know more about him. I always ask this, did you gather signatures? Are you conventionally? [00:00:35] Speaker C: I am a convention purist. I think that is the best way, and that's, that's the way I've chosen not to dismiss others who've taken the other route, but that wasn't the route for me. [00:00:47] Speaker A: Well, that's music to my ears. That's awesome. So, Tony, you have experience in being on a council, so please, will you give us a little bit of your history, and we can get into a lot of what you did on the council for Tula City, but we'd like to know about you. What do you do and why do you choose to go into politics? That's just. You're asking for trouble. [00:01:17] Speaker C: So as you, as you alluded to, my service to Tooila began with the Tooila City planning commission. So I did that for two years, and I was the chair on my second year. And after that, I decided to pursue Tooele City council. And so I joined Tula City Council in 2020. And it was very unique. Right. A lot of things happened between 2020 and 2023. [00:01:45] Speaker A: You could have picked a harder year. Right, right. [00:01:47] Speaker B: A lot of thing happened. [00:01:50] Speaker C: Well, I mean. I mean, you have to throw in an earthquake COVID general craziness. And it was really a good experience to learn not only about municipal government, but really how to serve in situations that are unique and stressful. And so I was grateful to serve on Tula City council for the four years I was on and had great experience working with the community. I give a shout out to my fellow former council members. They were incredible to work with, and I appreciated what they brought to the table. And one of the things I'm most proud of is how well we worked as a council. We didn't always agree, but we agreed to get along. And I was very grateful that I had that great group of council members to work with. So it made my life a little bit easier. And all the horror stories that I heard about infighting with council, you know, that wasn't my experience. And again, I credit my fellow former council members for being willing to listen. And we all respected each other. And it was a really unique and great experience, so. [00:03:03] Speaker B: Okay, good to hear. Now, I want to take a minute and talk about your past because you were a. I'm trying to remember. I'm digging back. You were a prosecuting attorney in one of the polynesian islands, correct? [00:03:18] Speaker C: Yes. So out of law school, I went to the University of Utah for my undergrad in law degree. Right. And I, you know, still paying, but that's okay. I can't reach anyone else. [00:03:30] Speaker A: What, Biden didn't pay off your loans? [00:03:32] Speaker C: No. [00:03:33] Speaker A: Weird. [00:03:34] Speaker C: And that's okay. I'm. They're my loans and I get to pay for them. That's how it should. [00:03:39] Speaker B: Oh, wait a second. That sounds like blaspheme to young years right now. Anyway, so where was you? Tell us about your time there. [00:03:49] Speaker C: Yeah. So right out of law school, I graduated during the great Recession. And so my first job was as a special assistant United States attorney in Washington, DC, prosecuting inner city domestic violence. And that was fascinating. And so it was. [00:04:06] Speaker B: Sounds awful. It sounds like a nightmare every day. [00:04:09] Speaker C: You know what it's, as a prosecutor, I've always wanted to live where there was interesting crime. Right. I know that's kind of twisted, but like, I want good crime because that, that makes it more challenging. And there's a need right there. If there's crime, unfortunately, that means there's victims. [00:04:26] Speaker B: Yes. And it's good that the prosecutor is the voice of the victim. [00:04:31] Speaker C: And so it was a great opportunity to really cut my teeth on unique situations, very diverse groups of people and lifestyles that I hadn't encountered before in inner city, DC. It was eye opening. I learned a lot. And so that was actually a fellowship out of law school, which was unpaid. And so I did that. I worked for free. Sometimes I would work six days a week because they would have us work. And I was grateful. Right. I was. I was working with some of the best and brightest attorneys in the, in the nation, and I just wasn't getting paid. And they were. And that was okay. And looking back, I don't regret it. That was probably the best way to start my career. And so after I finished my fellowship, I decided to see what was out there. And the next stop went all the way across country again and ended up in rural Nevada. Pioch, Nevada. Population about 475. The county was similar to Tooelen county, was 10,000 sq. Mi. And had about just under 5000 people. So I learned how to go from a very large city in metropolitan area to a very small rural community. And I love that I work closely with law enforcement. It didn't take too long to get to know them all and really everyone, right? Because when you're in a county of less than 5000 people, you know everyone and everybody knows you. And that really taught me how to communicate better and listen better. And so I was able to marry DC with rural living. And then after about a year and a half, an opportunity arose and thought, you know, why not? Let's mix it up a little bit? And so that's what took me to the great territory of American Samoa, where I was a territorial prosecutor. And that was an incredible experience, living in American Samoa. And the thing I always loved to tell people was I thought the American Samoa was in, in the Caribbean. And so I'm like, this is gonna be great. I can go to Haiti, I can. All these, all these cool places. And it was literally on the other side of the earth. It's by New Zealand. [00:06:58] Speaker B: So like, yeah, the closest place is New Zealand. And, and, uh, the Philippines still had palm trees, right? [00:07:05] Speaker A: And a beach. [00:07:06] Speaker C: Palm trees. Beach. Coral reefs. [00:07:09] Speaker A: That sounds horrible. Not really. That sounds amazing. So you've basically been in. I mean, when I think of prosecutors, you spend just as much as criminal defense attorneys to get your education, and yet you go into a life of, it's not profitable, it's not something that you can make tons of money doing, but you, you do it on behalf of the, representing the state and the victims. So, I mean, that's pretty incredible. Have you ever thought about changing course and going into the other side, or do you feel content as a prosecutor? [00:07:46] Speaker C: I am so grateful for what I do. My specialty in the area that I find that I just find the most fulfillment is special victims prosecution. So 95% is sex crimes prosecution for children and adults. And so I am very grateful that I get to work with that segment and work with these victims, who are incredible and they are some of the most challenging cases, difficult, heartbreaking. It is where the most work is needed, and, and I'm grateful to work in that, and I work in it now and, and I will work in that area until I no longer. [00:08:27] Speaker A: Can you work in Salt Lake or. [00:08:30] Speaker C: So I did. I. So when I came back from Samoa, I started at Salt Lake county, was there for seven and a half years, and then I needed to change, and then I worked as the section chief of SVU in Utah county, and then Davis county said, hey, we have a spot for you. Come on up. And so I am doing special victims in Davis county, and I love it. [00:08:55] Speaker A: My stepmother was in law enforcement, and she went into investigations of crime against children, special, you know, special victims. And that takes a really different type of person. Cause most law enforcement officers can only be in sex crimes for a couple years before it just gets to be too much. And I think when. When you. You can actually. You feel like you're helping a lot of people that are in that they feel like nothing's. You're not getting the guy and it's not happening. You're not. You're not seeing it fast enough because those cases take a lot of time and they're highly emotional, highly volatile. And getting those victims to. To get on trial is really, really hard, so. [00:09:37] Speaker C: Right. [00:09:37] Speaker A: That's no evil, easy feat. [00:09:41] Speaker C: And it's, you know, I'm in trial this week and I'm doing a case that I tried back in February of last year and that resulted in a hung jury. That means the jury couldn't come to decision. And so we're retrying it again. And so this is going on three years for one case. And it is. But you know what? There is nothing better. And then being in a job that you love and you find fulfilling. And so you're right. I'm never going to make the big bucks of a private attorney, but I am. Oh, yes, you can. Okay. Thanks. Okay, so guess. [00:10:27] Speaker B: And he is also another person who is making babies take care of us in our twilight year. So. Thank you. [00:10:36] Speaker C: Right? So I have three, and they're all at North Lake elementary. And it's great. I love it. So. And it's. And it's great because, you know, my kids are helped bring me back to center. Right. There's days I come back and I'm like, this world is twisted. Everything's crazy. And I come back and I realize, you know what? That's not true. There are plenty of healthy, normal people in this world. And so it reminds me that what I see is a small segment of society, and they are your why? [00:11:08] Speaker A: Like, your little faces are your why. I think that's amazing. So why don't you tell us some of your. What are some things that you're proud of when you were serving on the twill city council? Like, I mean, that's a really crazy time to be on any council. Our county council was going through a huge change during that time. COVID the potential mandates, the state involvement, and that's on the grand scale at a city. I mean, you guys had to do a lot. What. What do you think were some of your biggest accomplishments? [00:11:42] Speaker C: Well, and I'll start by saying this. My biggest accomplishments were group accomplishments. I never did anything by myself. It was because of the council. And so I will always give a shout out to them because it was because we agreed that, that we accomplished the great things we did. And one of the things I'm most proud of was about two and a half years ago, and you guys may be aware of this, in law enforcement there was pay discrepancies and for Tula City, an officer could make $10 more by just making the drive to the other county. And once we found out we knew that there was officers literally with applications out there and the cost to hire a new officer, get them trained, have them go out on, you know, with an FTO, you're not going to get any, any bang for your dollar for three to six months and, but you're still paying the same rate. And so it made sense to us to get the data. And I will credit HR director at Tula City was amazing. She literally called so many different agencies to give us a good statistical study of what the pay rate was. And we had a turnaround in two weeks and we were able to act quickly because we knew if we didn't we'd be losing officers in a week. And so I'm very proud that the council was able a, we were able to get the information, understand what kind of raise increase we needed to do to keep our officers and actually implement it. And I'm very proud of that because that was a group effort and we retained some incredible officers who were of value to our community. So very proud of that. [00:13:32] Speaker A: That's a common thing I'm noticing was the county faced kind of the same problem. Just Salt Lake county was paying so much more that you couldn't fault an officer for making $10 more an hour. And so that's impressive that you guys were able to do some data and get that. Tell us how you got through COVID and the mandates. And I mean, what did the people of Tula City want versus what the county, what did you find during that time? [00:14:01] Speaker C: You know, it was interesting because it was, I mean, you'd have to go back to the influenza of 1918 to see anything even closely similar. And we were all kind of taken back. I mean, I think the whole country, we just didn't know what to expect. We had a lot of information coming from different directions. And as a council we decided, look, let's just be safe. Let's, let's, we don't know what's, we're not health professionals and so let's just be safe. And we thought, let's just adopt a method that keeps people safe. And that's the approach we took. Give me 1 second. I need to close my door, otherwise you're going to hear some weird cartoons playing. [00:14:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:48] Speaker C: So, yeah, that, that was tricky. And it was, we were literally kind of fumbling through it, right. And then I think everyone was. And then right when we thought it was just getting super weird, we had the earthquake, right? And we. And it just, it was like, wow, what else is going to happen? And I remember that the earthquake caused some damage to the old police station, and we were concerned about that. But luckily, the new police station was coming on online, and so our officers were able to go into a building which is far better suited for what they need to do, and I think a little bit safer. And so it was just crazy. It was crazy trying to manage it, trying to manage kind of a little bit of the hysteria that was going on at the time and also trying to ensure that our businesses were able to function right. Because we had these, like, shutdowns where you couldn't go indoors. And so we tried to be a little bit proactive. We changed up, I sponsored some sign ordinance changes to allow small businesses to put banners out. Right. Because they needed to get the word out. Hey, we're still open. Come on in. We need your business. We need to stay afloat. So we're trying to be creative and find ways to help our businesses survive. And again, I will credit the council that we were able to, to be creative and open minded, to find ways to do that. So. And we did, and we did the best we could, and I hope we never, never have to go through that again. [00:16:19] Speaker B: Well, until 20. Well, we got 1918 2019. So what is it, 21 20? [00:16:29] Speaker A: We've got about six months before something. [00:16:31] Speaker B: 21 20 will have the other century. I. What are some of the things you hope to achieve on the county council? What are some of your goals? [00:16:40] Speaker A: The question from. [00:16:42] Speaker B: We'll get to the comments here in a second, but, yeah, what are some of your goals with the county council? [00:16:48] Speaker C: You know, the number one goal that I have is communication, and that goal comes from what I do for a living as a special victims prosecutor. If I don't listen to my victims, whatever I do will not work. And I've learned that translates well into serving on a counselor. And when I was on city council, I took pride in giving people my phone number, not just during election season, but people had the phone number that they could reach me and it was the phone that I actually carried, not some phone that's in some drawer that I pull out every three months. And so I really enjoyed interacting with people when they called and say, hey, you know what? There's these loose dogs, or, hey, why isn't there a stoplight in this intersection? Or whatever they wanted to talk about? Because I truly believe that my job is actually to listen, and I need to make it easy for people to reach me. And when they reach me, I need to actually listen, return phone calls, return emails. And I think that's like the very basic job of someone who is elected. And I take pride in that. And I've learned a lot from listening to people. And I hope that during my time on the council, people felt comfortable to reach out, not feeling like, oh, I don't feel like he's approachable. So I've worked hard on that and I want to continue that. And what I have found is I had great relationships with the city. When I ran for city council, one of the first things I did is I set up a time with each department head to meet with them and learn about what they do. When I'm running now, I set up a time to meet with every elected official in Tooele county because I wanted to learn about what the treasurer does, what does a clerk do, what unique things do they have that are challenges? And one of the reasons is to educate myself because I don't know, I'm not going to pretend, but the other thing is to build a relationship, because come budget season, if I have a good relationship, there's going to be a flow of information, it's going to be good communication. And when you don't have that, walls go up, and then that's where bickering and fighting happens. And so that's my number one. If I can't communicate, it doesn't matter what else I do. And so that's goal number one. Not only with department heads, not with just the public, but with the council itself. I'm going to treat them with dignity and respect and because they deserve that. And as an elected official, people shouldn't log in and be embarrassed about the dialogue happening in a public meeting. And so that is important to me. I'm proud. Again, in Tula City, we did not have that. And again, that was a group effort, not just me. And so I hope to continue that if I were to be elected. Another big important factor is tax credits, right. I don't believe that you attract new businesses to Tooila by giving them tax credits. And I know that's kind of a blow. [00:19:43] Speaker A: You might, but they don't stay right once the credits run out. [00:19:47] Speaker C: Exactly. And so what did you gain? You gain not a lot of anything. And what I loved about Tula City is we adopted a policy that we would not give tax credits, and we didn't for four years. You know what happened? We got a lot of new businesses because there's this perception that you have to give it away to get businesses in, and that's simply not true. And because what we have in twill is unique. We have industrial, we have rail, we have highways, we have this connections that, and we have a lot of areas for development and manufacturing. We are valuable, and businesses know that. And so I think we need to take a little bit more ownership in realizing we don't have to give away the farm. Businesses will come. We need to be creative. We need to be proactive. But let's not give away tax credits that, like you mentioned, in 20 years, as soon as that tax credit ends, they're out of here. Why? Why wouldn't they? And when you give those tax credits, guess where the burden falls? It falls on the property owners, right? [00:20:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:51] Speaker C: That's why it's important not to give it away. It doesn't matter the size of the business if you're giving that tax credit. That's that. That's shooting yourself in the foot. [00:20:59] Speaker A: So that's important, Tony, with your experience on planning and zoning. And we've seen the growth in Tooila, but the county as a whole, we've seen Urda and Lake Point, even Stansbury. We all kind of. We've kind of gone accustomed to the fact that Stansbury is a bedroom community, and Urda wants five acre lots, and Lake Point wants a little bit of commercial and big lots, but they want that control over the growth, this growth, water, the county's expansion, the federal lands, all of these things. Things are huge issues on our county council, having met with them many times and sat through many meetings with them, with legislatures. And how do you see, how do you see the county and its situation not only attracting business, but maybe getting some infrastructure put in there, and how do we grow in a healthy manner that will allow us to substantiate our population, but also, you know, bring in more opportunities for our youth to work? [00:22:09] Speaker C: That's a great question, and the answer is going to seem simple, but the starting point is to listen. We look at the referendums, we look at the discord that has been going on, and not just this council, but previous commission, there's been a lot of discord. And as an attorney in a high conflict area where me and the defense attorney, we are on opposite sides, but you can still disagree and get stuff done. But what happens is when you start the infighting and you start engaging in communication, that alienates people, then the walls go up and the lawsuits get filed. What needs to happen is our partners in Irta, Lake Point, Stansbury, they need to know that we actually are going to listen. And I think what's happened, and again, I'm not going to point fingers at particular people, but what's happened is there's certain levels of communication that have fallen apart and there's no trust. And so what happens? People retreat into their corners and say, you know what? This is not working out. We're going to go to battle. And again, I look at Irda, what happened was a complete failure of communication. And I think if people sat down and say, hey, I really want to hear what you have to say. And for me, I didn't grow up in Irda, and I want to learn what is important to Irda and listen to those perspectives before I jump to a decision. And so it's important before we make decisions that affect these communities, we understand them and that they're able to speak. And so that's something that has to be done day one, because if people don't trust the people who are elected, nothing gets accomplished and nobody is happy. That's the starting point. [00:23:56] Speaker A: And I have to say, because I was very, I didn't have a lot of hope for a part time county council. And all the counselors know this because here I wanted a lot of attention and I wanted it to be a full time job. And I'll be honest, I know these guys put in full time hours, a lot of them do. And with their jobs. And I'm so grateful for that because I do feel like they've covered having a, they've got somebody at the hill, they're highly in tune. And they, I've seen this council work better than I've seen any of our commissions in the past. And I mean, my, I've been really impressed. I mean, I know they probably bicker behind closed doors, but it just, from my perspective and many others that tune in, I see them working even though I know they all don't agree with. And what happens when, you know, that me thing with Irda and the temple and all of that, people started to draw their line in the sand and this council got thrown in when that line was drawn and the battle was beginning. And I think you get, once you decide to become a city, it's the county's job to let you become a city. And that's why I've not wanted it to Stansbury to incorporate, because I want to just have that one layer of government, which is the county, rather than adding a city on top. I think that as a councilman, you are going to. I hope you're going to bicker on behalf of district one. If it comes down to it, I hope you will make arguments and stand up for your district because you are representing, by design that district. But then, you know, when my representative comes to the table with something that we need, growth is happening. People have to be prepared for it. And we're going to have probably some more intense, you know, issues coming up. We've got water. That's an issue, and, and housing crisis. And one of our comments here is high property taxes. All this needs to be figured out. But we also have to be smart about how we raise taxes and not do it in ten years when we haven't done it for ten years. I mean. [00:26:12] Speaker C: Right. Absolutely. [00:26:13] Speaker A: Got to make sure our county, you know, employees are getting paid fairly and places that need, that are facing growth. If we don't do it in an organized and slow and effective smart function, we're doing a disservice to all of us because then it has to be redone. And we keep staying in our little cities when, rather than a county. So I'm hopeful that, you know, you're not, not worried about fighting that that happens on a, on a council, I'm sure, but this separate district. So I assume you all have different things you're going to have to argue about. [00:26:52] Speaker C: And I, and I agree with 95% of what you're saying. The one area I don't agree is there is no place for bickering. Bickering is when you let your pride get in the way of communication. I can disagree. I can disagree with somebody, but still treat them with the respect that they deserve and know, and let them know I will listen as opposed to shutting down or acting like, well, if you're not going to vote for my bill, I'm not going to vote for yours. That's how I define bickering, and there is no place for that. We are grown adults and we can communicate and I'll let you know. I will advocate for what's important for my district. There's no question I do that in my job. I stand before juries and argue and do that, but I do in a way that's effective. Not a way that shuts people down, but in a way that people listen. [00:27:40] Speaker A: Because that makes so much sense. Because you're right. [00:27:43] Speaker C: That's my approach. [00:27:44] Speaker A: Then an argument. [00:27:47] Speaker B: Where is the. Where is the lines for district one drawn? [00:27:51] Speaker C: It's basically the west side of Tooila. Almost up to west side, bordering over Lake area. [00:27:59] Speaker B: So basically where I live. [00:28:02] Speaker C: Yeah, you're. You're my people. [00:28:04] Speaker B: All right, I'm your people. [00:28:06] Speaker A: Too bad he's not a delegate. [00:28:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:08] Speaker A: Or a Republican. [00:28:09] Speaker B: Or a voter. [00:28:10] Speaker C: We got a lot of work. [00:28:13] Speaker B: I've. [00:28:14] Speaker A: You said you vote local. [00:28:15] Speaker B: I vote local. I've never voted for president, and I don't vote for local voter. [00:28:22] Speaker A: But he votes. [00:28:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I think the last time I voted was in a primary. Oh, well, the last time I voted for president, it was Clinton's second term. [00:28:34] Speaker A: I was curious about this tax. High property taxes, because, you know, 75% of our taxes go to education. We kind of know that. And, you know, I live in Stansbury park. My taxes feel like they just keep going up. My mom lives in Tooele. She's on the other side of Maine, though. She's not in your district. But I know that those people. The city had quite a big tax jump a few years ago. That was culture shock for a lot of people. Stansbury park just had a huge tax jump in our agencies. I think people are exhausted. Tony, if I'm being honest, people are, and you probably are, too. We're so sick of taxes. We understand the need for education, for law enforcement, for roads and streets. You know, things like that. But how can you address. We never get to own our property, even if we pay our homes off, and the property taxes are just going up and up and up. What kind of control would you have? Or what kind of say do you have in that? Are you, are you. What are your thoughts? [00:29:48] Speaker C: So the council has control over council over county taxes. Right? And that's straight up. Toilla City has control over Tula city taxes. County has county, state has state control over state taxes. So it really comes down to this. And before I was an attorney, I was a stockbroker. I had my series seven and my series 63 licenses. And so I was in the world of finance. And so numbers are important, budgeting is important, and here's the fallacy. So what you were talking about in Tula City was 2018, an 82% tax increase. Why did it happen? Well, there's something called the certified tax rate. And if you don't hold the certified tax rate, you go into a deficit and eventually, and you offset the deficit by either raising taxes or drawing from your general funds, which is kind of like a savings account. And so you can only draw from your general funds for so long before you're just like, we have to raise taxes, otherwise we're going to be insolvent. And so what happened in Tooila was the certified tax rate kept falling and it wasn't addressed. And so people were happy because there was no tax increase, but it came at a cost, and that cost was 82% in 2018. And so what needs to happen is, again, I'm going to talk about Tula City because I'm proud of what they did, is they implemented a program where we would meet at the beginning of the year and talk about our priorities. And one of the priorities that Tula City Council held was we weren't going to let the certified tax rate fall. We were going to do everything in our power to hold it so we could be proactive for the future. And then we were going to look at our budget and say, okay, we're going to hold the certified tax rate. So you departments know that's, that's not going to change. So you know what you need to do on your end to kind of balance the budget. And so we had those discussions early. The problem is when you don't do it early, you have this mass chaos right before budget season, and all of a sudden you're saying, hey, departments, you need to cut 10% and do it in three weeks, and that is never going to work. And what happens is people throw their walls up. People are just like, look, that's not fair. And then you have the infighting. And so it really is about being proactive and taking ownership of your budget, and that needs to happen early. And so the council needs to sit down and say, hey, here's our priorities to the elected officials and the county manager. And that's the starting point. So you know what the endpoint's going to be. And so what that means is there are some years where you might have to have a tax increase, but it's a small incremental increase as opposed to an 80%. And you can explain away and say, okay, look, this is why we're doing it. We want to be responsible because there's things that you can't address and budget for, such as inflation. Right? Like last year, two ago, we had 7% inflation. How in the world are you supposed to be able to address that? That's just the things, the cost of things went up, and you had to address that. [00:32:59] Speaker A: The price of gas at that point, I mean, just to fuel your police cars and your, and your county cars and all of that, that's a small little fraction, the snowplows. But that is such a huge impact. The fluctuating gas prices, the fact that when you're doing a build, you know, for a county building, that the cost of just plywood was so ridiculous. Biden tells you, though, that the inflation is going down. The inflation that, you know, he says. [00:33:28] Speaker B: Doesn'T, he doesn't say it near as coherent as you just did. [00:33:31] Speaker A: I would love to. I would love to know. I know you're a Republican, but how you feel about the party platform and its ideals and what you see in you and what you see in it that brings you to the party. [00:33:47] Speaker C: Well, I'm a child of the eighties, right? I grew up under Reagan. Reagan was my hero. And I've been proud to have been a Republican my whole life. Never change parties. I respect the other party, but it doesn't align with what I believe. I look through. You know, when we were at our caucus meetings, right, we read the party platform, and I agree with the party platform and things such as being fiscally responsible. Jury trials, the constitution, those aren't, like, just talking points. I live and die by the constitution. That's my job, and I uphold it, and I've sworn an oath to uphold it, and I don't take that lightly. And so when we talk about the constitution, it's something I know and I love and I've studied, and it's why I do what I do, because people have rights, and those rights need to be upheld. And I know for, you know, when I was on city council, I was unofficial. It was a nonpartisan race. So I never talked about being a Republican, because you're not. You're unaffiliated. I mean, nonpartisan is a better term as a city councilman, and I served all of Tooele City. But being a Republican is not something new to me. It's not something that's been trendy. It's something that I align with and I always have. And things like, I don't kneel, I stand for the flag. I respect it. That flag means a lot to me because far greater people than me have died for it. I believe in the rule of law. I believe that we need to uphold lawful activities. We need to respect our police. We need to support them. We don't go to public disorder. We don't believe in writing, and that's not the way I believe in freedom of speech. I will defend someone's right, even if what they're saying is something that I am totally against. Why? Because it's their right. That's the first amendment. They get to say that, and I get to defend their right to say it. And so that's not a joke to me. And second Amendment, that's part of the constitution, right? That's how it was written. And it's not my job to change it because I believe in an originalist view. How it was written then is how it should be interpreted now. Because if you fall away from that, then the constitution means nothing, because it means that anyone can say now. It means this. And what do we have if we go down that road? We have nothing. And so I believe that the constitution should be interpreted as it was written when it was written, not reinterpret, reinterpret. Reinterpret. Because then we have nothing. And so that's something that's important to me and I'm grateful for. I think the constitution is inspired by God, our creator, and it's something we need to uphold because it's unique in the world. And once we let it fall, then. Then we really don't have much of anything. That's one of the greatest things of our country, and we need to defend it and ensure that it's upheld. [00:36:57] Speaker A: I love that. I mean, that's easy, right? When you believe in something, it's easy to talk about it. And when it's literally your job, that makes it even probably easier. So you obviously love what you do. So you don't work a day in your life, and now you want to do a job, a real job, like county counselor. It's. It's pretty cool that someone loves their job and believes in it so much. I think that's extraordinary. [00:37:24] Speaker B: All right, you want to ask this one? [00:37:27] Speaker A: Yeah, let's just hit it. You see the comment that says, thank you for coming. The 2020 general craziness. We call that the summer of love included BLM marches and riots. I remember that you were part of that in Tooila. Why did you participate in that? I've always wanted to ask you. [00:37:46] Speaker C: That's a great question. I appreciate it being asked. So I was asked, as was every single elected official when that occurred. And it is my duty as someone who is elected to go to a place where people have concerns. And so I didn't turn away from that. Do I support all the beliefs of BLM? No. Do I think that there are areas that need to be addressed. Absolutely. Just like anything else. And so I did speak and I joined. I want to say it was either two or three of the county commissioners. They spoke as well, and a lot of people seem to have forgotten that. But I was the last speaker, and my points were this. I told the group that if you want meaningful change, you go and vote. If you want meaningful change, you run for office. And if you really want meaningful change, you join the organizations that you think need to be changed. Change happens within, not by rioting. And a lot of people have asked me, well, you know, how can you be a Republican if you speak at a BLM event? And I want you to know that a real leader goes where there is discord, where there is confusion, where there is people who are wanting to hear. A Republican doesn't hide. They go to the event and they speak what they believe. On that day, I didn't surrender my republican card. I made it shine brighter because I spoke to what I believed. And you know what? They listened. They didn't boo me, and they were. And they realized, hey, this guy is, he can stand next to me and support things that need to change, but doesn't surrender what he believes. And I am proud of that. And at the very end of that event, they all took a knee for seven minutes, and I don't take a knee for anyone except my creator. And I stood there respectfully, not disrespecting them. That was their right. That was their freedom of expression. But I stood there because I didn't need to take a knee. But I felt the need that as an elected official, I was not going to hide behind a door and say, oh, look at these crazy people. I was going to go to them and speak of what I believe in being lawful rule of law in. So that's what I did. And I'm proud of that. I'm proud that I did that. I was the only one on city council, and this is not disparaging other council members, but I feel leaders need to lead. And that means you, like, go out, that you don't go away. And so that's how I plan to lead. And if I'm invited to speak at something that's lawful, right, I'm not going to go to some chaos. If it was writing, I'm not going to be running around in riots. But if there's a lawful event where there is the ability to speak, why wouldn't I speak about what I believe. [00:40:38] Speaker A: And what I bring some. You bring some light to a potentially dark situation, and you bring some hope to a hopeless group that is looking and seeking hope. And I can see that. And we didn't have a riot in our city. That's because we had great armed citizens that made sure that everything was. [00:40:58] Speaker B: It's interesting, as I remember looking, we tried to get the girl that ran it on the show, but she chose not to come on. But I went and had breakfast with her a couple times, and we chatted, and she and I got along great, but Dave made her mad somehow, which is what happened. But anyways, it's great. It's interesting how both sides see the other side and read into what the other side did. And I didn't go to either of them because I live by a policy that I don't go to stupid places and anywhere where people gather over emotional things that by definition is a stupid place. Just, you know, for you, it's a stupid place. As a person. [00:41:51] Speaker C: Call the Boston Tea party a stupid place. Well, Lexington and Concord a stupid place. That's people stood. But what they believed. [00:42:00] Speaker B: Right now, for me, right. Right now, as a person, as a person who comports himself in a certain way, I don't join into those things. Personal policy. But I find it interesting the way both sides see that we did not have a riot out here. We had a march, and we did not have people subduing other people's first amendment. We had people who lined places that they were concerned about, places with statues. Couple years. A couple years build up to that, we'd had a lot of issues with statues becoming the victims of large groups in the United States. [00:42:46] Speaker C: Sure. [00:42:47] Speaker B: So I don't see as either side did anything wrong. I'm saying that outright. I don't think that that, and I don't think they were directly affiliated with BLM, our group that marched out here. I don't think they were talking to the girl that put it together. She wasn't. She was a sideline supporter of BLM until she noticed that BLM means by large mansions, and then she gave up on that. But she's a supporter of the message. But it's interesting. Both sides see it as stereotypical. They read into what the other side did. Her side felt like everyone lined up around that park there on vine and Maine, that they were subduing their first Amendment speech. And I said, wait a second. So they weren't, well, mean things were said. [00:43:42] Speaker C: Sure. [00:43:43] Speaker B: Mean things were said on both sides by individuals. But the group was. They had seen statues, military veteran statues fall victim to such groups. Not your group, but such groups. And the other side seen the ride. [00:43:58] Speaker A: In Salt Lake not too far before that, where officers were actually hurt. [00:44:02] Speaker B: And then the other group that showed up, they felt like any gathering was just a riot and just unruly, which our group that marched was an unruly. They marched and danced. And I think it's good. [00:44:18] Speaker A: I think it's good because. Yeah, right. The county. [00:44:20] Speaker B: And I think it's good you showed up. And I'm going to say that outright. [00:44:23] Speaker A: Our commissioners did. Did speak, a couple of them. And I think it's just a good steward. You are everybody's. I mean, even though you're running for district one, on the whole scheme of things, you're representing the county. [00:44:36] Speaker B: Wait a second. Now that you're in district one, my district, you got to show up. [00:44:40] Speaker A: I mean, so the county, you represent everyone as a whole. And I want to get back into representation. My biggest fear year, when we did. When we did change over from the full time to part time was our ability to be at the hill during session and make sure that our voice is there. And, you know, these, this part time job, these guys, the county council got someone to lobby for them on their behalf, giving us a seat at the table. And I know that our legislators are phenomenal when it comes to working with our county council. They're highly approachable. And right now, Celeste Malloy, she's highly approachable. She works closely with our county council, and that's building relationships. Like you talk about. How do you see representation at the Hill? [00:45:31] Speaker C: That's a really good question. It's one of the. It's like you read my mind. So right before law school, I worked for legislative research and general counsel. So that was a legislative. That was a legal branch of the legislature. So I worked there for almost three years. I got to go to session, got to go on the floor and watch that very closely. And I didn't know how that would benefit me later in life, but now I do. And what a lot of that's just. [00:45:59] Speaker B: Me sharing your website. [00:46:01] Speaker C: I threw me off for a second. [00:46:02] Speaker B: I was like, while you talk, I just want everyone to have a chance to see it while you talk. [00:46:08] Speaker C: Right? So here's my thoughts in a nutshell. If you want meaningful representation on the Hill, you actually have to go up yourself and you don't go. When a vote is being done on the floor, you go to the committee meetings and you sign up to speak, because if you want change, you have to get in early, not late, and while I agree it is a part time position, I think council members need to commit, and there's a way to do it. And here's what I would propose. You divvy up. There's five council members. You divvy up the areas that bills typically fall in. Crime, property, municipal, water, there's all these areas. And a council member gets a topic and then they track the bills that are going to affect our county and then they go up. They work with our elected officials, right. Our state reps and state senators, and we work with our lobbyists, but we need to get up there, too. No one lobbies better than somebody who's vested in the community. And I think our county council needs to do that and make the time because that's part of the commitment, that's part of our duty of representing is actually going there. No one can speak better about our county than us. I don't care who the lobbyist is. They're not from Tooila. They're not from Tooila. We can speak with passion because we live here and we can go to these committee meetings and say, hey, you know what? This bill is missing. It's missing this. And we're not speaking from a paper because we're getting paid to speak. We're speaking because it's our community that we care about. And so I think we can do that. I realize there's time constraints, but we can do that if we are selective and pick and choose the bills that will most affect us. [00:47:55] Speaker A: I mean, a lot of them have full time jobs. I would hope that. I mean, I love that we have a seat at the table. That's something we had under our commissioners and, you know, they were appointed to certain boards, and that did help. But again, I was pleasantly surprised at the fact that we really didn't skip a beat in the train in the change. I expected it to be chaos. Our county council just kind of jumped in. And if there was a lot of chaos there, I don't think we saw it. Like I anticipated on that. I would like to talk about collaboration, because one thing that twill city doesn't have that the county does is a lot of cities within it. [00:48:40] Speaker C: Right. [00:48:40] Speaker A: And to work together and how do you see? I mean, collaboration is needed. The county needs cities on board, all of us going towards the same goal for the betterment of the county, because we all live here, but we need collaboration from Tooele City, from Stockton, from Grantsville, from Lake Point. Everybody's got to kind of be on the same page and how do you see you being able to establish some collaboration in that front? [00:49:14] Speaker C: And you're absolutely right. I think a lot of times we get protective, right? And in Tula City, we're Tula City, right. We have our needs and our goals, but on the council level, for the county, everyone's on your team, right? We are all in the same county. And so the way to do that is actually be proactive in reaching out to these cities. When we had to meet the candidates event, was it last week, I was grateful that Grant Silmarier said, hey, can I talk to you? And my answer is, of course. And I was grateful that he wanted to share some concerns he had. And I want my reputation to be, you can approach Tony Graff, he's not going to shut you down. He's not going to just listen and not really listen. I actually want to hear. I want to hear what Gransville needs because my vote is proportionally the same as the representative from Grantsville, right? We all have the same vote and we all vote on everything. So what happens in Grantsville is important to me because I do not want to make an uneducated vote. And so I would want Grantsville, Irda Lake point, all of our communities to know I want to hear, and I'm not going to vote ignorantly. And so that means I actually have to make the effort and reach out. And I'm willing to do that. I'm willing to go meet with councils and mayors and say, hey, I want you to know, you can call me, but let's sit down and listen. I want to listen to your concerns. And I think that's the very first point, because once a city, a government, a mayor knows, hey, that person is actually going to take my call and listen. And I may not agree, right, I may not agree after I do all my research, but they're going to respect that I'm trying to listen and they're going to feel more comfortable approaching that person again and again, because they know that person actually wants to listen and do right for the county. And again, I'm not always going to vote what they want, right. Because I have to weigh the needs of the county. There's a lot of work, but I want them to know that I am going to listen because when I was in public meetings, until a city council, there are some times that the public comment changed my view. And that's good. That's the way it should be. [00:51:32] Speaker A: That's really good, because the public is who has hired you and it is them that you have to think about at the end of the day and whether they have a d or an r and I next to their name. It should not. It should not matter. These collaborations are so important. And, you know, from the party's perspective, we would love to have, you know, meetings with all our electeds, because I think the information that our council needs from the Senate, like, they need. They need to know what bills are going on that are going to affect the county before those bills hit the floor, for that reason. So they can weigh in. They need to know what's happening on our federal level, with our lands, and with, you know, what's the government doing. And so our congresswoman has been, you know, highly engaged with our council. Our council has been great at outreach and getting information. They are. They seem to be the information council, whereas in the past, we haven't. Maybe they haven't. Our prior commissioners maybe have not invested in trying to get data before making decisions, and so they've tried to bend a well informed council. A lot of projects going on within the county, and I see the county going in a good place. I'm curious with you, you know, what. What is it you want to accomplish at the end of the day? Is there something that you see that you could accomplish on behalf as a member of that team, on the county level? [00:53:09] Speaker C: Absolutely. And this is a general comment about the state of affairs on a national, state, and local level, there is a great distrust of government and of elected officials. Straight up. [00:53:22] Speaker B: What? [00:53:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:23] Speaker B: No saying so, unfortunately, you're. [00:53:27] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:53:28] Speaker B: How often do they say one thing and actually do that? [00:53:33] Speaker A: No, they name it a bill and they do the opposite. [00:53:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Or do they? Yeah. Do they come up with a plan that says, you know, turn the sky brown and call it the blue sky plan? I don't know where this is coming from. [00:53:48] Speaker C: What are you drinking, my friend? [00:53:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:53:50] Speaker A: I mean, what are you. [00:53:51] Speaker C: I know. [00:53:52] Speaker B: You know what I'm saying. I'm not drinking a ginger ale, right? [00:53:56] Speaker C: Yeah. You're not drinking water either, and that's all good. That's all good. That's what makes your show so great. So for me, it's. It's. It's simply this. Before I can actually accomplish anything, I have to earn people's trust. Straight up. No one's gonna. I'm not gonna accomplish any of my goals if people don't trust me. I'm talking about the council. Fellow members, fellow elected officials on the county level, cities, businesses. Businesses. There has to be that trust, and I have to earn that. That doesn't come to me if I win an election, I have to earn that by effort. And so that is goal number one, that I actually make the effort to reach out and engage, because if I don't, I will never gain traction and no one's going to care. I do have plans on what I want to accomplish. I actually believe we should implement a rotation schedule on replacing equipment for the county. Why? Because if we don't, we have these peaks and valleys with our budget. Suddenly we have ten sheriff's vehicles that need to be replaced that we didn't anticipate. And I'm not saying that's the case. I'm just giving you an example. And so we need to be on a rotation schedule on how we manage our equipment. And what does that mean? That means we have a more stable budget. And if we have a more stable budget, that means we can manage taxes better, as opposed to being thrown to the winds of chaos when we just don't have that in place. And on a council level. And after reading the county code, we have an inventory system that's in place, but we don't have a replacement program that's in place. And that would benefit us across the board in every department. Other things that are important to me is, again, the policy of not giving tax credits to new businesses again. Why? Because that affects our budget. We have more influx of sales tax from these businesses that otherwise we would have given away. How does that affect us? It lowers our tax burden. And so that's important in regards to development and growth. We need to listen. IRTA is different than Lake point. Lake point is different than Tula City. Grantsville is different than all the other places. And so it's important for me to listen. And it's becoming more narrow, right. Because with the incorporation of Lake Point and urbanization, the county has less development areas. Right. Those no longer are areas, but the areas we still have control on. We need to listen to the people who live there and to make good policy decisions. And let me give you a quick example. Right by North Lake elementary, there are these, like, little micro farms with livestock and horses. And we had a developer come in and say, hey, we want to make it from rural to seven reals, which is residential development. And I'm grateful that that community came out and said, hey, we only have so much of this land, and once we lose it, we lose it. And I'm very proud of the rural heritage of Tooila. And so it's important for me that we retain it as best as we can. Obviously, growth is going to happen, but we can manage that growth. And managing growth begins by listening to the people who actually live there and then setting the priorities and being consistent and following through. [00:57:09] Speaker A: And so that's the hard part, Tony, in some of these areas, and I'm with you 100%. I just. I'm thinking of Erda back in the debacle times because they seem to have settled down a bit. But, you know, I know that I was in meetings where both the commission and then the county were listening and they were actively listening. And the problem was that consistent part. You have a group of people that all wanted different things, and it's their job to come to one place and bring it to the county. And they were having. They were struggling with that and coming to what they wanted. And some had been there their entire lives, and some had been there one year and wanted to change the fact that, well, we don't want farm animals living next door to us. And the ones that bought farms out there or livestock are saying, this is what we're scared of, is this is why we want. So, you know, plenty of zoning. There's constant, you know, people aren't on the same page. We live in the same community, but I don't want to live next to a farm. But then again, I would rather live next to a farm than next to a big office building. Right. And I'd rather have homes put up, maybe townhomes that my elderly parents can live in or my kids when they first get married. I'd like to see some real estate coming out into the county. But all these things. That's just too cute. I can't even stand it. My teeth hurt. That's so sweet. [00:58:52] Speaker C: All right. You're right. [00:58:55] Speaker A: You can't be on the same page is a big problem. And you've got, if you read the socials and people talking about a potential inland port or a satellite port, that could really benefit the county a lot. And some people realize that and some businesses realize that. And the idea of making people less, they are able to commute or not have to commute around the mountain, and maybe they can start businesses here, and maybe we pull from this workforce and all these things, the dream for the county. But then you've got a whole other side saying, we don't want it. It's going to cause pollution, it's going to cause traffic jams, and we don't want it here. So how do you. I know. Listening. Listening is great. But the reality of some of these meetings is you've got people neighbor against neighborhood, right? Absolutely. Of what they want. So I'm just, I'm wondering what your vision is and how to get people maybe to come to a consensus where they both give a little right. [00:59:58] Speaker C: And sometimes it's simply not possible. And so the first, the first point that I think needs to be recognized, you cannot be everything to everyone. It's impossible. And that's if you do that, you're setting yourself up for failure and you're. [01:00:11] Speaker A: In the wrong business as a politician because you will upset a lot of people regardless. [01:00:17] Speaker C: And you're right. But it's how you engage with those people and how you manage that. There's ways of communicating that you can say, look, I'm not going to go for your position and they're going to be livid, but there's a way to do it in a respectful manner where they felt like, oh, you actually listened. You don't agree with me, but you actually gave me reasons why that makes sense. So here's where it begins. And this is going back to my planning and zoning days, and one is making sure that the planning and zoning makes sense and looking it over again. And I know that's revisited every now and then, but what happens and where the chaos happens is when you start mucking with the planning and zoning that was already established. And if it was established that way and there was a reason for it, you shouldn't deviate from it. It's when you start being unpredictable that people start losing their minds. But if you have an area that's zoned for commercial or zoned high density, then it, then you hold to the plan and you build it because that's what's permissible. And sometimes you have to revisit and say, okay, needs are changing. We might need to change this particular zoning area. And that's where you engage the public and educate the public and listen. So you're right. You can't be everything to everyone. But one of the most important things you can be as an elected official is consistent and people will manage consistency far better than chaos. And that's what sometimes happens is this whipsaw approach of like, oh, well, suddenly we are changing from rural to high density and that freaks people out. [01:01:52] Speaker A: Even the words high density gives people a really bad feeling in a town like ours. [01:01:56] Speaker C: And it should, it should cause panic if it's not planned, because if you're doing it to high density, what you should be doing is phasing into it so you don't have high density next to a farm. You might have a farm next to a one acre lot and then transition to a half acre lot, then transition to a quarter acre, and then eventually you get to the high density. So you have this appropriate buffer. That's good planning and zoning. Bad planning and zoning is suddenly you whip saw and say, oh, I know this is rural, but we need high density right next to you. That's horrible. And that's not consistent. And people want consistency. They want to be able to say, I see what you're doing, and I don't agree, but at least it makes sense. And that's the important part. So again, you're not going to please everyone. You're not going to have world peace in these meetings when you're changing zoning. But if it makes sense and it's consistent, people are able to accept better. That's been my experience. It's when you can't and you're not consistent, people understandably and rightfully lose their minds. [01:02:58] Speaker A: Well, that's people in general. I mean, I will look at sometimes on the 411, you have the same people complaining that we don't have Costco. Why don't we have a Costco? And then they're also complaining about growth. And I'm saying to get a Costco, you need to have, like a population of 200,000 people. So do you want to live in a town of 80,000 or do you want to live in a town of 200,000? Because then you'll get your Costco. Costco's not coming. You'll drive to West Valley. They've proven that. They do market research. They understand that. So educating the people in a way that is kind, I mean, I'm probably less kind than you are. I get pretty blunt with people because it's exhausting. But that's what's highly important. And I think having a council that is approachable, and I've been, I have been trying to get them on town halls free, and they have been more than willing. And we just got caught up with caucus and everything. But, you know, we have a group of guys on that council that are excellent when it comes to transparency as far as the party, and they've been on the show every time we've asked and we've brought up the issues with them. I would hope that if you were to win, that you would offer that exact point, promised to us that transparency would be important and that you would be prepared to. We just want to educate the people on what's going on in the county, and we would hope you would give that same dedication that our current counselors have given us? [01:04:32] Speaker C: Well, I think there's no other way. And I've been grateful that Jared has invited me throughout these years and I've never declined his and I've always answered the questions, even though they may be a little uncomfortable. I believe that if I'm going to put myself out there, then people have a right to ask me questions and I should answer them. If I don't want to answer them, I shouldn't be running for office. And so I'm happy to do that. And I believe transparency is very important and I have no problem with that. I think that's the way it should be because that's how trust begins. No transparency, no trust. It's impossible. [01:05:06] Speaker A: Well, then our lives are far more affected by local government. And that's, that's just how it is, folks. And if you, if you are interested in learning more about Tony, we want you to go to Tony for utah.com. [01:05:18] Speaker B: Tony for tooilla. Oh, sorry for, she's in, she's in caucus brain. [01:05:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:05:25] Speaker B: Come November we can have a minute of rest, but until then, it's going to be insane. But Tony for tooila.com, go check them out. [01:05:35] Speaker A: I assume that, you know, you take donations or you like volunteers. We encourage people to do what they can if they support a candidate. State delegates that are, excuse me, county delegates that are watching. This is, this is your race for district one. And it's actually the only race we actually are hosting at convention. [01:05:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:59] Speaker C: And my delicate bull is 18. [01:06:01] Speaker A: It is. We have 18 people that we will credential for voting. [01:06:08] Speaker B: Have you been able to reach out to them and meet with them? [01:06:11] Speaker C: You know, I was grateful for the meet the candidates event. I had a chance to interact with, with quite a few as well as reaching out to them. And I appreciate that. And I would also like to give my phone number out.